Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

So I joined The Back Alleys, something I've been meaning to do, because it is full of pretty much all the people I respect. Zekey, Rtil, Squeef, Sinitron, and others.

At around 4:00 AM I had a three hour long conversation with RVS. Someone whose work is all off Newgrounds, but used to strive to improve the place like I sometimes do in my rants about over-rated shit and stupid people. I must say, this man laid it down thick. So thick it makes me want to delete my account and leave NG forever.

The admins probably know this man, and probably knows what he has to say better than our garbled conversation, but he is a man who left NG in 2006 for bigger and better things. I thought about summarizing this, but I felt it just wasn't doing it justice.

*Warning: This is a very large block of conversation, and reading it may blow your fucking mind.*
*** rtil sets mode +v on guest78
<guest78> ummm n***a plz
<RVS_Anonymous> parodies are better than original content, newgrounds parodies are gonig to go mainstream
<RVS_Anonymous> n***a? whos a n***a
*** guest78 is now known as davebut
<RVS_Anonymous> ah dave
<davebut> i predicted you
<RVS_Anonymous> cool?
<davebut> mindchamber review banned me like two minutes afte writing the review
<davebut> for 10 fucking days
<RVS_Anonymous> what?
<RVS_Anonymous> its just a review
<RVS_Anonymous> what did you do, link porn?
<davebut> I took a rant on IMDB
<davebut> that was about Get Smart sucking
<RVS_Anonymous> but its just words
<davebut> and posted on parody rangers
<RVS_Anonymous> words cant hurt u
<davebut> CRAWLING IN MY SKIN
<RVS_Anonymous> see blitz this is why I want to get as far away as possible from those elite fuckers
<davebut> apparently they hurt mindchamber
<davebut> very much
<davebut> he told me to get a hobby
<RVS_Anonymous> didn't you know? all the negative reviews get deleted on site
<RVS_Anonymous> (sight)
<RVS_Anonymous> oh he did, did he?
<RVS_Anonymous> what a douche
<davebut> Lma
<davebut> I have some nice rants
<davebut> on shit like the awesome movies
<davebut> and meetnfuck
<davebut> but I didnt feel like watching the movie
<davebut> or even making a serious review
<WolfBlitz2> well that sucks
<RVS_Anonymous> lol
<davebut> Ill just post with an alt
<RVS_Anonymous> fuck egoraptor
<RVS_Anonymous> and his dad
<davebut> In his ass
<WolfBlitz2> ah the elderly
<WolfBlitz2> http://www.2flashgames.com/f/f-Multicl assing-6512.htm
<RVS_Anonymous> his fuckin dad is a newgrounder
<RVS_Anonymous> and tries to defend ego lol
<davebut> that is just scary
<davebut> unless he is like 11
<RVS_Anonymous> he was on newgrounds war podcast
<davebut> I listedned to the ng war
<davebut> but
<davebut> All the voices seem to blend together for me
<davebut> Only Squeef
<davebut> Youngjazz
<RVS_Anonymous> in the beginning he even says he's ego's dad lol
<davebut> and Swain stuck out
<RVS_Anonymous> I know rtil's voice perfectly
<RVS_Anonymous> he has this subtle cynicism
<WolfBlitz2> have a look at this man!
<davebut> I listened to it three times without breaks
<WolfBlitz2> http://www.2flashgames.com/f/f-Dog-Dev ours-Burrito-6514.htm
<WolfBlitz2> fuck I have never seena do eat so quickly
<WolfBlitz2> dig*
<WolfBlitz2> ah! dog
<davebut> Fuckin d0gis in hell
<RVS_Anonymous> lol
<RVS_Anonymous> so what did you think of the podcast?
<davebut> It was good
<davebut> A bit narrow
<RVS_Anonymous> I think the suggestions were dead on
<RVS_Anonymous> rtil fuckin nailed it, I'm not trying to be nice either, he fuckin nailed it
<WolfBlitz2> where do I find this "podcast" that you speak of?
<davebut> I must say there were plenty of opinions I heard and yet had not seen before
<RVS_Anonymous> rina-chan.newgrounds.com I think
<WolfBlitz2> ah that audio thingy yeah?
<RVS_Anonymous> yesh
<WolfBlitz2> seen it
<WolfBlitz2> I think
<davebut> put on your favorite pair of panties
<RVS_Anonymous> making money off of copyrighted material was nailing it man nailing the problem
<davebut> fuck
<davebut> shrums said that long ago
<davebut> LONG AGO
<RVS_Anonymous> lol fuckin steal sprite movies like alvin-earthworm, put up flash ads, BAM copyrighted movie money makin
<davebut> I should put flash adds in the underdog movie I mad
<davebut> and the fake hentai
<RVS_Anonymous> flash ads are the most idiotic thing in the fuckin world
<davebut> Yea
<RVS_Anonymous> where tom's head is I don't know
<RVS_Anonymous> when I talk to him, he has this stubborn outlook with this "vision"
<davebut> Promote what most artists are against
<davebut> selling out for views
<RVS_Anonymous> oh I didn't mention
<RVS_Anonymous> winning money through contests
<RVS_Anonymous> for metal gear awesome 3 1/3!
<RVS_Anonymous> 200$
<RVS_Anonymous> yay copyrights!
<davebut> Well I admit, no one saw this bright future coming
<RVS_Anonymous> bright? or a clusterfuck?>?
<davebut> thats a good term
<davebut> I would say anarchal
<RVS_Anonymous> I had clusterfucks for breakfast
<RVS_Anonymous> part of a balanced breakfast
<davebut> woohoo new top first in the top 50
<davebut> I stopped paying attention to the top 50 after Madness 6
<WolfBlitz2> I heard the same for weet bix
<WolfBlitz2> and coco pops
<davebut> Shit all went down after madness broke 4.3
*** WolfBlitz2 has quit (Quit: WolfBlitz2)
<RVS_Anonymous> lmao
<davebut> I blame this all on Wade
<davebut> Why not
<RVS_Anonymous> shit went down after queers of war
<davebut> tru
*** guest98 has joined #thebackalleys
*** rtil sets mode +v on guest98
*** guest98 is now known as WolfBlitz2
<RVS_Anonymous> I just wanted an alternative from this bullshit so bad
<WolfBlitz2> bloody internet
<RVS_Anonymous> but no one is fuckin makin it, so wtf oh well make it urself
<davebut> I wonder what 33.3% of users here think newgrounds is better
<davebut> better for trolling sure
<RVS_Anonymous> newgrounds itself is fine
<davebut> users are DUMB
<davebut> DUMB AS HELL
<RVS_Anonymous> there is flaws in the system that allow 12 year olds fuck up the system
<davebut> yea
<davebut> especially when the majority of NG is 12
<RVS_Anonymous> its a combination of little kids and tom's horrible new features like flashads, contests, no extra criteria, fuckin bull
<davebut> I hate the newer review system
<davebut> it just promotes shitty reviewing
<RVS_Anonymous> it used to fuckin be
<RVS_Anonymous> that you could be an ass
<RVS_Anonymous> and hey you had fun
<davebut> All this ergonomics is fucking the system
<RVS_Anonymous> the mods and admins didn't bother u
<RVS_Anonymous> yea ergonomics!
<RVS_Anonymous> fuck ergonomics
<davebut> make it harder to use so we can have our fun
<davebut> I think Tom does not care about NG
<RVS_Anonymous> trust me, I tried to help him out, I tried honestly
<davebut> he obviously cares about the people
<davebut> but not the site
<RVS_Anonymous> he cares about people caring about him
<RVS_Anonymous> wait
<RVS_Anonymous> no you're right
<davebut> he thinks it will fix itself really
<RVS_Anonymous> its not gonna fix itself
<RVS_Anonymous> and when I probed him
<RVS_Anonymous> he said they were lazy and all these things he wanted to put in weren't
<davebut> A fancier layout will weed out the poor users
<RVS_Anonymous> the frontpage shouldn't be elite picked
<RVS_Anonymous> I swear to god it shouldn't
<davebut> like how then
<RVS_Anonymous> oh man tons
<davebut> I agree with artsy stuff getting our own section
<davebut> You can be shit somewheres else
<RVS_Anonymous> the biggest flaw is giving people approval voting power if they vote more
<davebut> It is a good proven gimmick to improve repeat users
<davebut> but
<RVS_Anonymous> so rtil has less approval power compared to inuyasha_55_lover
<davebut> LMAO
<davebut> yea
<RVS_Anonymous> do you see what I mean?
<davebut> its completely pointless
<davebut> for a site that showcases art
<davebut> why do we need power and ratings
<RVS_Anonymous> ad views
<RVS_Anonymous> its all about ad views
<RVS_Anonymous> to keep u voting, keep u watching
<davebut> Its all about the money
<RVS_Anonymous> instead of letting the movie itself show how good it is
<RVS_Anonymous> alllll about the money
<RVS_Anonymous> once tom saw it was making money
<davebut> IUm working on a big video which I got fulp to say he might FP
<davebut> And when He does
<RVS_Anonymous> and I like how the flash ads go through them as the middle man!... bullshit
<davebut> Im filling it with ads
<RVS_Anonymous> haha
<davebut> Like 50 windows on the first frame
<RVS_Anonymous> I know rtil doubts what I'm trying to do, but I gotta prove things can be better than newgrounds
<davebut> I dont have much hope
<RVS_Anonymous> always have hope
<davebut> Its all I can do
<RVS_Anonymous> once I left ng years back
<RVS_Anonymous> I'm tellin ya, it felt great
<RVS_Anonymous> u realize how much you were limited by it
<davebut> whats your ng name
<RVS_Anonymous> RVS
<RVS_Anonymous> all my work is off ng since 2006
<davebut> Does that mean you gave up hope?
<RVS_Anonymous> only in newgrounds
<davebut> In such a world
<RVS_Anonymous> but really give me what problems u see, what suggestions, or shit you wanna see
<davebut> where websites like Ng
<RVS_Anonymous> hm?
<davebut> Such a strong beginning, foundation, and man behind it
<davebut> fall
<davebut> its disappointing really
<RVS_Anonymous> arrogance and no humility and no way to grow
<RVS_Anonymous> no its not disappointing
<RVS_Anonymous> its beautiful
<RVS_Anonymous> it shows that all must rise and fall
<RVS_Anonymous> its time for more people to rise
<davebut> I must say
<RVS_Anonymous> most people say they're making something, never make it, and if you make a site, well you're a "newgrounds" clone to the ngers
<davebut> You are the most optimistic person I know
<davebut> Not even Kottbullar is this optimistic
<RVS_Anonymous> I'm insanely optimistic
<davebut> And he held out hope that the KK could become something bigger than a spam crew full of lazy and untalented artists untill the very end
<davebut> great guy
<RVS_Anonymous> that's why u gotta keep goin
<RVS_Anonymous> keep trying pushing
<davebut> I promise that I will never fall
<RVS_Anonymous> fuckin ego's dad says "well shakespeare died broke therefore don't work hard"
<davebut> even if I bcome really successful
<davebut> Lma
<RVS_Anonymous> I say fuck him, work on something you love and grow out away from fuckers like ng
<davebut> yea
<davebut> I just do what I like
<RVS_Anonymous> I just want a place with enough space for everyone to express themselves
<RVS_Anonymous> there is only strife when there is scarcity
<davebut> I get reviews on my spam asking me to improve so THEY can enjoy it
<davebut> and I refuse
<davebut> why?
<davebut> why cater to someone else
<RVS_Anonymous> I believe wholly that EVERYONE deserves their own newgrounds
<RVS_Anonymous> like rtil has his backalleys
<davebut> This is a quote of the year
<RVS_Anonymous> we all need a place, we need a core place to compete, and a soft place to rest and for fun
<davebut> yea
<RVS_Anonymous> u can see why I'm so pissed at admins yellin at u kids
<davebut> But I guess when such a place gets pulled apart
<davebut> its no fun anymore
<RVS_Anonymous> tom played favorites
<RVS_Anonymous> playing with fire
<davebut> divided and quartered
<davebut> You should write this shit down and throw it at the fan
<davebut> put it on the FP
<davebut> Slam it on the BBS
<RVS_Anonymous> I don't submit to ng
<RVS_Anonymous> they wouldn't listen
<davebut> Who cares
<RVS_Anonymous> I tried this before in 2006
<RVS_Anonymous> defending your rights
<davebut> say what you want
<RVS_Anonymous> i did it before, and I ended up upsetting tom and everyone
<davebut> good
<RVS_Anonymous> I think liljim almost cried
<davebut> I think everyone needs a good slapping
<RVS_Anonymous> I tried man, I tried to help
<RVS_Anonymous> but I'm letting the hammer fall on their bullshit
<RVS_Anonymous> u guys can stay there as long as u like, but I'm working my ass off on another path
<davebut> do you think they will look back
<davebut> and say maybe RVS was right
<RVS_Anonymous> they will look back and think they should've listen to ME
<davebut> or will they say who again?
<RVS_Anonymous> Tom remembered me after years
<RVS_Anonymous> and we only scuffled once in 2006 barely during the queers issue
<RVS_Anonymous> *queers of war
<davebut> it seems the official NG collabs all revolve around Video games
<davebut> Personally
<RVS_Anonymous> the only thing I need is hope and support for something better
<RVS_Anonymous> u gotta bleed that u want something better
<RVS_Anonymous> get angry get mad
<davebut> I may have a discussion from time to time with an average NGer
<davebut> but I like shaking things up
<davebut> I am a troll
<davebut> and it is what I do
<davebut> I am angry I have madness
<davebut> I find it hilarious though
<davebut> anything will pass
<RVS_Anonymous> everything
<RVS_Anonymous> by everyone
<davebut> through the portal
<RVS_Anonymous> regardless of qualirty
<RVS_Anonymous> mmm qualirty
<RVS_Anonymous> fuck "teh portal"
<davebut> I feel like submitting a bunch of gay poorly drawn shit
<RVS_Anonymous> anything that has content management is Tom's "idea"
<RVS_Anonymous> it isn't worth it
<RVS_Anonymous> the thing I did for them is submitting nothing
<davebut> I like it when Tom says that people who insult NG cant see where it is heading
<davebut> I can see where it is heading
<davebut> straight to youtube
<RVS_Anonymous> straight to shit
<RVS_Anonymous> they had their chance
<RVS_Anonymous> man I saw it
<RVS_Anonymous> they had that edge
<RVS_Anonymous> but... they fucked it up
<RVS_Anonymous> yougrounds!
<davebut> Mygrounds
<RVS_Anonymous> newtube!
<davebut> Where you, the viewer, are the one put on a pedestal
<RVS_Anonymous> there is too much to fix
<RVS_Anonymous> I'll say it
<RVS_Anonymous> they would have to redo the entire thing
<RVS_Anonymous> to fix it
<davebut> I agree
<davebut> when people ask how to fix it
<davebut> I say there is no fix
<davebut> I see no fix
<RVS_Anonymous> people got too good for the site
<RVS_Anonymous> used to be animations weren't rtil quality
<davebut> True
<davebut> there is only continuing down this path or derailing it
<RVS_Anonymous> bullet trainwreck
<RVS_Anonymous> bang
<davebut> And there is no way Tom would end NG
<davebut> his life is NG
<RVS_Anonymous> They'll get desperate at the end
<davebut> is there an end>
<RVS_Anonymous> yes
<davebut> is there an end?
<RVS_Anonymous> there's an end
<RVS_Anonymous> the end comes when people leave for somethings better
<RVS_Anonymous> the portal slows to a crawl, where only the elites make stuff for it
<RVS_Anonymous> desperation, giving away money just to submit
<RVS_Anonymous> and yet, are we not seeing this already coming to pass?
<davebut> :)
<RVS_Anonymous> parodies are drowning ng
<davebut> It has been getting worse and worse
<RVS_Anonymous> and yet we wonder how it can get worse
<WolfBlitz2> has Rtil woken yet?
<RVS_Anonymous> iunnononbut..
<davebut> Shit man this is a bit shaking
<davebut> all my rants are temporary fixes
<RVS_Anonymous> if you check newgrounds traffic ranking... its been tanking
<davebut> really?
<RVS_Anonymous> http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traf fic_details/newgrounds.com
<WolfBlitz2> what is shaking?
<RVS_Anonymous> it sure isn't up
<davebut> well that could be school related too
<RVS_Anonymous> check the year
<RVS_Anonymous> click the year tab
<davebut> oooo
<davebut> that hurts
<RVS_Anonymous> yea
<RVS_Anonymous> a lot
<davebut> and now they are giving out more money than ever
<RVS_Anonymous> to get more people
<RVS_Anonymous> they want views, they want it bad
<RVS_Anonymous> if haloween doesn't help
<RVS_Anonymous> they have a big big problem
*** Hammi has joined #thebackalleys
*** rtil sets mode +v on Hammi
<davebut> I wonder
<RVS_Anonymous> hm?
<davebut> Would hey keep all the submissions on NG
<WolfBlitz2> on a hardrive?
<davebut> if it becomes to much to maintain
<RVS_Anonymous> all?
<RVS_Anonymous> you do know
<RVS_Anonymous> that the newgrounds system eventually gets rid of it
<WolfBlitz2> BIG hardrive?
<davebut> it scares me to think of it
<RVS_Anonymous> if a submission is below like 2.9 and its say 6 months later
<RVS_Anonymous> blammed
<RVS_Anonymous> its an automatic killer system
<RVS_Anonymous> and the redesign took away TONS of submissions and deleted them
<Hammi> lovely
<WolfBlitz2> what if it has a trphy?
<RVS_Anonymous> its not a library of flash, its a fuckin hellhole
<WolfBlitz2> trophy*
<RVS_Anonymous> nope...
<RVS_Anonymous> I think its a vote to view ratio combined with time
<davebut> damn
<RVS_Anonymous> I remember seeing wade commenting on it and it's on the site somewhere
<WolfBlitz2> do you think that water lollies will ever get down to that score?
<RVS_Anonymous> nah
<RVS_Anonymous> they keep the stuff like that
<davebut> There goes piconjo
<RVS_Anonymous> so IT APPEARS like everyone's stuff is there
<WolfBlitz2> because it is in a collection?
<RVS_Anonymous> collections save it
<RVS_Anonymous> I believe
<WolfBlitz2> man... there is so much behind NG that I never thought of
<RVS_Anonymous> lol u thought the portal kept everything after it passed? lol...
<davebut> somewhat yes
<WolfBlitz2> unless the author deleted it
<WolfBlitz2> basically
<RVS_Anonymous> I think
<davebut> I knew about innactive authors losing all their stuff but damn
<RVS_Anonymous> that if there's the option for the author to delete it
<RVS_Anonymous> I think the system deletes it eventually
<RVS_Anonymous> because it happened to me
<RVS_Anonymous> back then
<davebut> yeah i saw you had an account but no flash
<WolfBlitz2> aw... back in the day...
<RVS_Anonymous> I got the rest of it deleted
<davebut> which was a little confusing
<WolfBlitz2> we had no internet we had books!
<RVS_Anonymous> thanks to queers of war indicent
<WolfBlitz2> and not the laptop kind!
<WolfBlitz2> sorry bad joke
<RVS_Anonymous> (incident)
<RVS_Anonymous> no problem
<WolfBlitz2> Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?
<RVS_Anonymous> because you touch urself
<WolfBlitz2> Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?
<RVS_Anonymous> abbv.
<RVS_Anonymous> frontpage should be irrelevant
<WolfBlitz2> Why is it in a film if you decide to start dancing in the street, everyone you bump into will know all the steps.
<RVS_Anonymous> hah
<RVS_Anonymous> but yeah
<RVS_Anonymous> times must be tough on ng
<davebut> Hell on earth
<RVS_Anonymous> it'll only get worse mi amigo
<RVS_Anonymous> well think about it this way
<RVS_Anonymous> who submits now
<RVS_Anonymous> people who spam the portal a lot more than usual it seems
<davebut> New people an spammers
<RVS_Anonymous> so yea its up to them and the elites
<davebut> tru
<davebut> to keep it alive really
<RVS_Anonymous> the top elites will stay because of sponsorships and getting paid
<RVS_Anonymous> if the spammers leave or get bored
<RVS_Anonymous> that'll be it
<RVS_Anonymous> I'm thinking that maybe tom lowered the standards to get more movies through
<davebut> if the userbase leaves so will the spammers
<RVS_Anonymous> and the automatic killer system takes care of most of the spam
<RVS_Anonymous> if the spammers leave so does the userbase
<WolfBlitz2> are yousaying there could be an appocalypse on NG?
<davebut> ahhh i see a little paradigm
<davebut> without the points which keep ng statwhores here
<RVS_Anonymous> without you guys
<RVS_Anonymous> newgrounds is nothing
<davebut> there will bne no users
<davebut> without any spammers
<RVS_Anonymous> without annoying spammers, it'd be done for
<davebut> yea
<RVS_Anonymous> so tom's sponsoring the elites
<RVS_Anonymous> furthering pissing you guys off
<RVS_Anonymous> and eventually wanting to leave or get bored
<RVS_Anonymous> playing favorites, makes everyone else not want to play
<davebut> oh man this is juicy
<WolfBlitz2> that is why they are called oranges
<RVS_Anonymous> yes it is ironic that spammers are what keep up that site
<RVS_Anonymous> oranges? lol
<RVS_Anonymous> nice one
<davebut> we need more oranges in this conversation
<RVS_Anonymous> OJ
<WolfBlitz2> and limes
<RVS_Anonymous> mm
<RVS_Anonymous> u can see by that traffic graph
<RVS_Anonymous> that ng's traffic has been dropping
<WolfBlitz2> you could be one of those finacial people!
<WolfBlitz2> financial
<RVS_Anonymous> the portal's oversatured with too many artists, not enough viewers
<RVS_Anonymous> nah I'm just observational lol
<WolfBlitz2> your observations are interesting and funny in a way
<davebut> it seems to me there are plenty of viewers
<davebut> or at least more active users
<davebut> ^^
<davebut> people who are much more devoted to NG
<RVS_Anonymous> yep
<RVS_Anonymous> only the suckups
<RVS_Anonymous> a niche
<RVS_Anonymous> that gets smaller
<RVS_Anonymous> and smaller
<RVS_Anonymous> and smaller
<davebut> until oblivion
<RVS_Anonymous> or it could level out
<RVS_Anonymous> who knows
<WolfBlitz2> then smallest
<RVS_Anonymous> it depends on the viewers and artists
<WolfBlitz2> then nothing mor but dust
<RVS_Anonymous> there's tons of games on ng
<davebut> maybe there is some deformed future of NG
<WolfBlitz2> this is when NG need to do one of those publicity stunts
<RVS_Anonymous> but less people playing them
<RVS_Anonymous> like what
<RVS_Anonymous> they tried everything
<RVS_Anonymous> giving money away literally
<davebut> Tom is going on a japanese game show
<WolfBlitz2> haha awesome
<RVS_Anonymous> he already did a show on G4 I think
<RVS_Anonymous> or was it tech tv
<WolfBlitz2> I hope it is takeshi's castle
<davebut> a long time ago though right?
<RVS_Anonymous> yea
<RVS_Anonymous> they aren't smart enough
<RVS_Anonymous> or motivated enough
<RVS_Anonymous> to do something bigger
<RVS_Anonymous> tom contracts coders
<WolfBlitz2> knowing japanese games shows tom would be really stuffed
<RVS_Anonymous> they haven't even finished the goddamn chatroom
<RVS_Anonymous> hey irony
<WolfBlitz2> bruised and heaps of fractures
<RVS_Anonymous> rtil makes a chatroom quicker than newgrounds
<davebut> lmao
<WolfBlitz2> true!
<davebut> It would be a shitty place like the BBS
<WolfBlitz2> wasn't rass' idea to make a chat thingy though?
<davebut> but easier to troll at first
<WolfBlitz2> ross?
<davebut> who cares
<davebut> its a shit idea
<RVS_Anonymous> I'm thinking that tom will keep pushing to keep artists
<RVS_Anonymous> to the point of "hiring" them
<WolfBlitz2> a shit idea that never happen
<RVS_Anonymous> he already sponsors shit
<davebut> "my dream job is to work for Newgrounds and draw dicks all day
<RVS_Anonymous> a fuckin decade
<WolfBlitz2> then it will become a whole page of just sponsoring
<RVS_Anonymous> they haven't changed a goddamn thing
<RVS_Anonymous> I say they're fuckin lucky they made it this far
<WolfBlitz2> NG should have ads for banks haha
<RVS_Anonymous> they gotta do something HUGE or the sites gonna fuckin tank
<davebut> woohoo
<davebut> We get to see Tom as a bum on the road
<RVS_Anonymous> I don't want it to, but hell you see the writting on the wall
<RVS_Anonymous> like fuckin Fulpageddon
<RVS_Anonymous> a parody posse shall battle original posse
<RVS_Anonymous> more and more pissed people
<davebut> Do you think he would sell the site and abandon it in its final days
<davebut> They already
<RVS_Anonymous> I don't know
<davebut> are
<WolfBlitz2> then both fulps be out of a job then
<RVS_Anonymous> tom makes games
<RVS_Anonymous> xbox live arcade one he just released
<RVS_Anonymous> made a lot
<RVS_Anonymous> he's fine
<davebut> Wade has a family
<davebut> lmao at his wife jokes
<RVS_Anonymous> the website, I think it'll continue to fall
<RVS_Anonymous> lower views until its just Tom and a few buddies
<davebut> NG may become an independant game company
<RVS_Anonymous> heck even the star syndicate ended
<RVS_Anonymous> kitty krew ended
<davebut> dear god I bet wonchop would stay
<davebut> KK was shit
<RVS_Anonymous> see that's why u notice the "celebrities" more
<RVS_Anonymous> cause that it is
<WolfBlitz2> if that does happen I owe you a coke
<davebut> no one cared enough
<RVS_Anonymous> yes but KK kept things going
<davebut> tru
<RVS_Anonymous> u neer noticed wonchop or others until recently
<RVS_Anonymous> used to be the anti-LF
<RVS_Anonymous> heck even rtil is a "celebrity" there
<RVS_Anonymous> there's less people to overthrow the other artists
<davebut> Even BFK doesnt care
<davebut> I think I agree with the chosing sides
<RVS_Anonymous> I say it'll end, a definite end is if rtil and/or the group of original artists decide to leave
<WolfBlitz2> this when we need successors
<davebut> its getting rid of big name spammers
<RVS_Anonymous> rtil carries a large group of people on his shoulders
<RVS_Anonymous> whether he likes to know that or not ;_
<davebut> yea
<RVS_Anonymous> ;)
<RVS_Anonymous> spammers made ng fun
<RVS_Anonymous> the fun spammers
<davebut> they still try
<RVS_Anonymous> like the foamy_27 one lol
<davebut> but its dying
<RVS_Anonymous> notice
<davebut> All of us know
<RVS_Anonymous> even the clock crew isn't submitting
<davebut> Spam is dying
<RVS_Anonymous> you feel it in your gut
<RVS_Anonymous> last clock day barely had enough
<RVS_Anonymous> I don't know what tom'll do in the last days
<RVS_Anonymous> but I do KNOW that what rtil decides to do will determine a huge loss
<davebut> If he decides to stay I doubt it would change much
<WolfBlitz2> may I ask you two something?
<davebut> but if he leaves
<davebut> sure
<WolfBlitz2> what is the time where you are?
<RVS_Anonymous> if rtil continues to not submit content, or stop submitting his opinion on the site
<RVS_Anonymous> and maybe just sticks here
<RVS_Anonymous> then that's a big hit
<davebut> 6 AM
<RVS_Anonymous> its.... 6AM
<WolfBlitz2> 8:55 pm here
<RVS_Anonymous> lol
<davebut> Big named artists drift away all the time
<davebut> you know the guy who did the grim reaper series
<RVS_Anonymous> rtil's the only BIG veteran left
<RVS_Anonymous> outside veteran
<davebut> remember him saying he would leave ng?
<RVS_Anonymous> who's not part of tom's poss
<RVS_Anonymous> e
<RVS_Anonymous> rtil said that?
<davebut> tru
<RVS_Anonymous> when?
<davebut> no
<RVS_Anonymous> hm?
<davebut> I was making a ppoint with the other guy
<RVS_Anonymous> oh
<RVS_Anonymous> lol
<davebut> He still makes stuff but none of it is on NG
<RVS_Anonymous> yea I'm saying rtil is like the only top veteran who isn't in tom's posse
<davebut> yea
<RVS_Anonymous> if rtil LEAVES newgrounds
<RVS_Anonymous> then I will be on the edge of my seat
<davebut> Then NG will be ruled by the VG fans
<RVS_Anonymous> because the rest of the original artists like JAZZED and such will follow suit
<RVS_Anonymous> it will BE VG parodies basically
<RVS_Anonymous> the reason there's this "war" is because ng is chosing a side
<davebut> Maybe trols and spammers would grow from such a pile of shit
<RVS_Anonymous> its chosing vg parodies
<RVS_Anonymous> I'm saying they will
<RVS_Anonymous> if there's a proper flash/multimedia portal
<davebut> rebirth and a new hope
<RVS_Anonymous> I know it'll flood

Updated: 10/09/08 4:34 PM Log in to comment! | Share this!

The People Have Spoken

47 Comments

Oct. 9, 2008 | 7:30 AM HandsomeWarrior says:

Almost all my submissions score below 2.90 but I've never had anything deleted.

And I've never been review banned just for leaving low rated reviews to popular artists.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 8:38 AM DaVeB0T responds:

Well it seems you might have read it, or you just took two points and commented on them.

Well his submissions and the stuff he was talking about was all submitted over a year before the redesign. Also, I got review banned for leaving a pointless and non-sequitor review. He pretty much goes on from there about how the review staff, mods, and admins have failed Newgrounds.

I loved every word of it.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 8:52 AM HandsomeWarrior says:

Yo, I did read the whole thing and was almost tempted to sign up to The Back Alleys.
All I'm saying is that none of my crap (also submitted before the redesign) has been deleted despite being low scored. I'm just checkin' facts.
But I did love the declining Traffic Chart for NG! It seems like not even Egoraptor can save them now :)

Oct. 9, 2008 | 8:55 AM DaVeB0T responds:

Put on a tinfoil hat, the shit is going down.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 3:29 PM Kavinel says:

truth

Oct. 9, 2008 | 4:20 PM DaVeB0T responds:

sacry

Oct. 9, 2008 | 3:31 PM The-DeadDuck says:

I just read it, and this fucking explains so much shit. Also, I checked in google trends, and some other traffic site, every of them shows that newgrounds gets less traffic than in late 06, which seems to be a peak. Explains the redesign. I haven't seen it coming, I was sure all that eye candy, newspace and vg parodies attracts more traffic.

I see shit going other way trough. If everything will continute going into a direction it does now, we'll have a place for group of authors who'll do basically only VG parodies, maybe sprite movies, and movies who will revolve around dick jokes and group of people who visit the site to watch those, but won't submit anything themselves, other than some half-assed shit that passes with score worse than spam. Since the site doesn't promote any originality, this, and prolly spam will be only shit passing. This is a straight road to hell, as some of those artists will move on, working on more beneficial shit. Some will stay, as they'll have their dicks stroked all the time, both from admins and fanboys and it will be easy cash.

Eventually, fanboys will also care less about the site, traffic will tank even more, and newgrounds will become sub-par site for flash vg parodies. Site will sink off the internet's major sites group, but won't really die.

I wonder what would happen if tom sold the site at that point, I think it depends who'd sell it to. It don't think it'd die, but change into something very very generic that wouldn't attract anyone at all. Or, if new owner was shit, became a zellomesh. If some rich internet company would get it, it would became pretty youtube-ish.

In other thing I just trought of - Tom oftenly mentions about those 300000 daily views and 450000 flashes submitted. I checked some stats, and newgrounds doesn't reach those 300k views anymore. And how much flashes would be submitted without spammers - since some time, spam is up to 1/3 of flashes submitted at all. Right now, out of recent 50, 13 flashes would count as spam, so excluding things that are UJ and will get blammed, it would be something like that. Either way, spammers are in some way most active people on NG.

And if frontpage wasn't picked manually, you'd be sure to have only vg parodies/dickjokeetc/epicspritebattle on it. This way, rarely but still, something else happens to show up there, like Abscess.

Still yeah, newgrounds getting less viewers since 06 was pretty unexpected, if something won't change, this trend's going to keep same way until NG will get dicked. Since most likely nothing will change at all, I'm pretty pessimistic.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 4:24 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Personally, I feel nothing cosmetic could change this trend. Nothing added on will change it. The only thing that can save it is a full derailment.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 3:38 PM The-DeadDuck says:

Everything goes down to the point that average newgrounder is getting dumber and dumber, and site supports it. Can't blame tom for wanting to make money from site, but in final that may be demise of newgrounds.

Also, the 50 windows idea wouldn't work, if flash got over 1000 views or something, admins have to manually allow title, .swf file, and author comments if I'm not mistaken changes so he'd most likely approve the .swf change then instantly remove it from fronpage. It's "for Your protection".

Oct. 9, 2008 | 4:26 PM DaVeB0T responds:

I know that once a flash gets FP any changes have to be approved by an admin. I'll just have to think of a creative way to get my point accross.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 4:23 PM Orangebeef says:

Deep shit.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 4:34 PM DaVeB0T responds:

I couldn't have enjoyed it more if I was high.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 5:32 PM 0therGuy says:

(Y)

Oct. 9, 2008 | 5:48 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Yes my friend, yes.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 6:17 PM MAYORMCHEESE says:

lmao i got foamy_27 review banned

Oct. 9, 2008 | 6:49 PM DaVeB0T responds:

I wish I knew more about who that was.

Updated: Oct. 9, 2008, 6:50 PM

Oct. 9, 2008 | 6:22 PM Wiiporter says:

Clockcrew submits a lot still. We aren't about to leave ng.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 6:48 PM DaVeB0T responds:

The clockcrew is a shadow of itself. It still exists, but it is nothing like it was in years past. Spam is dying.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 6:42 PM LordOfKetchup says:

i didn't read the entire thing but i did read a lot
it is becoming increasingly obvious that newgrounds is dying.
all the flash groups are dead. like you said, even the fucking clock crew is dead. theres no originality at all and its true that the site doesn't promote it, all the "flash days" are all about fucking parodies.
but theres not much you can do about it. NG is getting boring now

Oct. 9, 2008 | 6:48 PM DaVeB0T responds:

I agree entirely. There is nothing I can do. I can try to salvage people one by one, but what else can be done?

Oct. 9, 2008 | 6:58 PM Soullink says:

I remember rtil. I loved his freetown flash. I wish he'd do more with it. Didn't his male lead get on the banner for comic con. Anyway I hope that guy keeps at it.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 8:50 PM DaVeB0T responds:

He will, but whether on NG or not is the big question.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 7:33 PM n0ise says:

"bad"
by: Eldca
date: 53 minutes ago

it does not work it makes me so made

Oct. 9, 2008 | 8:49 PM DaVeB0T responds:

HOORAY FOR INTELLIGENCE

Oct. 9, 2008 | 7:34 PM MAYORMCHEESE says:

"I wish I knew more about who that was."

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view /332095

http://foamy-27.newgrounds.com/

he's not really on anymore and most of his reviews are deleted but he basically left pages of bad reviews on SS movies and the like

also that dailytoon was frontpaged for a bit which makes it funnier

Oct. 9, 2008 | 8:49 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Good ole trolling.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 8:28 PM n0ise says:

and yeah the redesign fucked up everything

Oct. 9, 2008 | 8:41 PM DaVeB0T responds:

yea

Oct. 9, 2008 | 10:24 PM Joeypwnsjoo says:

This post made me think a lot, A WHOLE LOT to be exact. Made me ask questions about myself too, which include, but not limited to.

1# I'm gulty of using video game characters myself, am I as bad as Alvin Earthworm.

2# After I leave this site, where will I go.

3# Is it worth caring about how unoriginal and video game faggot-ish you are.

4# Am I thinking too much.

But yeah, Newgrounds is dying, even I am getting bored of it.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 10:29 PM DaVeB0T responds:

I think all of those are valid reflections.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 10:39 PM MAYORMCHEESE says:

is ng dying? fuck if i know. if this ship is sinking ill party till death.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 10:57 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Ye boy.

Fuck the system.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 10:51 PM Ansel says:

damn dude

i've read so many angry rants about how this place is dying, but this one strikes a nerve just because I know you've experienced firsthand the kind of things you're talking about. This isn't just another denunciation of spam -- you are lamenting the death of it, lamenting the fact that it no longer sparks any kind of reaction around here... I've never been as into this site as some people I know. It's a great idea, a great site run by great people who don't realize they've created a monster...

like, damn, i gotta go to the backalleys irc more, i'm missing all this lovely discussion

Oct. 9, 2008 | 10:56 PM DaVeB0T responds:

It was luck that i stumbled upon RVS. The scary part and the reason I posted it is because all of this makes sense.

It's like he took all my musings and incomplete thoughts and completed them in a scary portrait. Shit, all of my rants and calls to action are temporary fixes for NG really.

The only real spammers actively submitting are me (although I just got into it), zeebmork, K0mat0se, and the rookies at the drama-ridden FF. It's kind of pitiful, but I don't think a next generation will pull through. The people taking our places are more and more just like regular NG users, they do shit for popularity. Partyshank and those other people (I consider them yoshi77777's replacements) only started submitting mozz movies because Zeebmork made a Frontpage post about a mozz preloader he made.

Spammers are getting bored. Where is the challenge? I just submitted a movie with my preloader and one frame of an MSN conversation, and it passed with a 1.8. Yesterday I submitted an intentionally shitty cartoon with scribbles and a screamer, and it passed with a 2.0. The people of NG have come to expect and accept this quality. So much so that they don't care anymore.

The reason we have proxy wars over pointless weekly awards is for the reviews and general reaction. Just submitting it to the portal will give you an average of 2 reviews, 10 if you name it after hentai. Its really not worth the effort anymore.

P.S. IRC could be better though, with the fact that it makes no sound when someone types a message, it really is luck that you catch someone on there.

Updated: Oct. 9, 2008, 11:18 PM

Oct. 9, 2008 | 11:23 PM skarai says:

Honestly, all good people leave in the end. Like the good players for online games, they leave, everyone leaves.
Community is the biggest thing in places like these. They create, they share and whatever. But these people now... Blah.
Everyone copies nowdays. Not just Newgrounds.
I always think of that, "a copy of a copy, of a copy."
Some things weren't even good to begin with!

Doesn't matter... All I want is a good community.
Give me that... Or give me death! No wait, I think I can bare without it.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 11:48 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Of course people leave. But the problem is the people who are replacing them are terrible. Humanity has ways of reinventing itself, and I think you didn't think that thought through. Art has always been thriving and striving to be origional. To find new styles and ways of representation

Its almost as if the elite users of NG are against that thinking, and people look up to them. People have to find role models, and like RVS said, rtil has a big following on his shoulders, whether he likes it or not. If he decides to leave or just stop contributing, the artists who look up to him will crave somewheres to go.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 11:57 PM Choices says:

Well you guys sure complain a lot but thats your view on this website and I'm cool with it it matters. The reason I dont like this website its because of the community. It is disgusting.. Its turned now (or always has been) into a social gathering for teens to become popular and lie about how cool they are in real life. Another thing that I truly find displeasing is the choice of mods If a "respected user" turns against you you're pretty much fucked, you become an easy target. Mods will find shitty ass excuses for banning you, your reviews will be deleted and so on.. This website mostly runs on other websites content with the exception of original admin created flash and other high quality content around the net many users dont even care about flash and thats almost a fact. If you go into the bbs you mostly notice that all the user base is at the general forum with over 100 members in it daily as for the flash/art/programing they only have a mere 15 users if lucky. I dont even think the admins like this website, If they did they would interact with the community frequently post on the bbs and make some work with other users or maybe they are just too busy? I dont even want to know.
And you guys are at the bottom you who bitch sooooo much about how this website is you who say this website is filled with a bunch of low life 12 year olds you who look for the most insignificant detail and dick slap it with all your offensive language and insults. Hahaha grow up already you all make a big deal out of this shit Its hilarious. good bye
This is an opinion~

Oct. 10, 2008 | 12:16 AM DaVeB0T responds:

Spaces and the enter key.

Well I managed to trudge through that block of text and, like always, I am confused about what exactly you are trying to say. The admins have picked the side that generates money and pleases the crowd. They cater to people who are like YOU.

There is nothing wrong with coming on the site in your free time and casually, but when you become a self-righteous dick about it, make an account for stats and to promote the few people you found you like, you are undermining everything this site stood for.

Newgrounds was made as a place for creativity and an outlet for artists. Plenty of people were terrible at flash, but it was all about fun.

Tom is a great guy, but his catering to what makes money and produces hits has led the site into Hell.

Oct. 9, 2008 | 11:59 PM Choices says:

fuck yall drama queer fagg0s too

Oct. 10, 2008 | 12:16 AM DaVeB0T responds:

If I honestly could understand what you were saying, I might agree.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 12:28 AM skarai says:

Don't know what you're talking about. Art + Orginal yeah. Definitively.
But people do copy. Hell, parody rangers was more or less a flat out copy of MGA.
I have thought it through actually. Just that I say things shortly, and I don't explain them.

Honestly, I don't know if I can. In short it's just that some people do create. Then there are them who just copy.
Most though, do well in the beginning, everything works at least once.
But in the longer run it gets old, and they can't come up with something new. Like all those bands. Calvin and Hobbes is great, but in the end of the comic just became his thoughts voiced by them. Their personality isn't even there.

Don't know why you mention about the "elites" though.
What about them? Who cares?
Don't even know who they are.
Say what you want about elites or any other group in the internet.
They all say the same thing in the end.
First comment.
Epic win.
I'm smart.
I'm arrogant.
It's not interesting at all. Thats the way I see it though, so I could go fuck myself. Now, I'm going to sleep.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 12:36 AM DaVeB0T responds:

Well my full answer is another speech for another day, but I will say that you can trace alot of the poor users behavior to either ignorance or to an older user.

People want to fit in, but when role models act poorly, so will their followers.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 12:55 AM Reaper858 says:

lol oh so we have a righteous flamer here who believes in dignity and down with corruption because of power. The only thing in there which you actually had a point on was tom fulp in it for the money. So i would be too, who woundnt? What are you? A church little girl too, grow up stop bitchin an crying and welcome to the real world, this is a buinsness and its been making more money and been more awsome since the changes so stop complaining.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 1:04 AM DaVeB0T responds:

You are just mad that I made a SMBZ 8.

Thank you for showing up though, I needed a little boost.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 3:41 PM JohnnyUtah says:

<RVS_Anonymous> flash ads are the most idiotic thing in the fuckin world
<davebut> Yea

Is trying to make some artists some cash REALLY a bad thing?

Oct. 10, 2008 | 4:08 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Making money for art? No.

Making more money depending how popular you are? Yes.

Newgrounds has become a popularity contest, and I blame cash prizes like this. Sure it is great to reward success, but when success is measured by how many people you can get to love you, becoming successful often means giving up ones own pursuits.

Hell, if I was a new artist, expirimented with video game jokes and sprites, and it got me money, why would I want to make anything else? All people expect and want from me is video game parodies, and the money is more than an added bonus.

In addition, this is just pissing off unnoticed artists who refuse to sell out. Why try to stick to your own interests when you can get CASH. Sure, the origional work of a few artists like Doki and Somebody find a niche and grow successful, but why struggle for such a spot when it is easily obtained otherwise.

I don't think this was the intention of flash ads. I know Tom really does care about the artists and users of Newgrounds. But I honestly don't think he cares what direction it is heading in. I look on the BBS and see users named after 4chan memes. I post an opinion in my blog, and it is shoveled under undeveloped hate.

Honestly, popularity used to be a pointless endeavor. So what you have more fans than me? Newgrounds is all about having fun and having your voice heard. I feel these contests shake that foundation and undermine it.

I think this whole "Newgrounds War" (although interesting) was completely dodging the issue. I don't give a shit that people want to spend their life working with sprites. It is ok to not use your own origional art to me. But when you put it side by side an origional peice and ask people to rank them on the same scale, that is complete insanity. All you get is a disproportionate scale of popularity and several unstisfied artists.

PS Do us all a favor and make the next official NG collaboration not have anything to do with video games.

PPS You are a good artist but I would call you more of an entertainer than origional.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 4:51 PM LordZeebmork says:

The auto-deletion thing actually makes sense, and actually, I think I have seen it happen. There was a user a while back called TheMarkior, who had an animutation, some random movie, and a Mario movie with an award. He was last active in 2003. The animutation and the other movie got deleted sometime early this year, but the Mario movie is still up.

Yeah, spam is dying. The only new-age spammer I see who isn't complete shit is Yoshio. I think the problem is that spam these days isn't as funny as spam back in 2003 or 2004. The Kitty Krew was active for a large part of the last two years, and they mostly weren't funny. I'm complete shit, squeef put too much effort into his movies, and there's no model for spam groups, like the SS was for the KK.

There are no good Flash portals anymore. It's all about games and shitty video game parodies. Zellomesh had potential, but it was too buggy, badly coded, and generally shitty, and the redesign that never happened completely killed it. I might try to revive it, but there's really no point, and unfortunately, I don't have the money to start my own portal.

You could timebomb that potential FP movie. I have timebomb code.

It seems that Newgrounds cares more about the viewers than the users, community, artists, or whatever, and that's generally the first sign of a website going down the shitter. It's better to have a userbase of 1000 regulars than 100000 people who come here once or twice and never make an account for most smaller sites, but that reverses for a commercial (sellout) site like Newgrounds. The staff cares about ad revenue more than anything else, so they keep fucking up the system, making stupid shit like the redesign, to get more viewers, while ignoring things like the audio portal, BBS, and chat, which users care about but viewers don't.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 4:58 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Woohoo for change.

And I must say, people not having role models for spam is right dead on. In fact, the role models for the BBS are what is killing it too.

Updated: Oct. 10, 2008, 4:59 PM

Oct. 10, 2008 | 4:52 PM LordZeebmork says:

* makes sense = explains a lot

it's an incredibly bad idea, but it does explain a lot

Oct. 10, 2008 | 4:54 PM LordZeebmork says:

also, I should start getting TOTW with ad-filled flashes

Oct. 10, 2008 | 5:01 PM DaVeB0T responds:

: )
Is trying to make some artists some cash REALLY a bad thing?

Oct. 10, 2008 | 5:09 PM rtil says:

every time rvs is on i'm either asleep or ready to leave

Oct. 10, 2008 | 5:38 PM DaVeB0T responds:

I was pulling an all nighter because I wanted to study for an exam, which actually wont happen till Tuesday. I would say that was one hell of a lucky situation.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 5:25 PM LordZeebmork says:

Don't even get me started on the BBS.

The main problem there is the mods. If someone stuck every generic regular and idiotic noob with a 30-day ban, it would be a lot better, but instead, they ban everyone but the generic, boring regulars and the fucktarded, meme-spewing noobs. Hell, I got a three-day ban for posting in that blank screen collection thread, even though there were six fucking mods on when it was made and none of them had any problem with it, and the mod didn't sign the ban so I can't do jack shit about it.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 5:39 PM DaVeB0T responds:

BBS is a shit hole

GHGHGHGGHGHHHHHH I feel like posting a rant on the BBS called "Why the BBS is full of fucking idiots"

Updated: Oct. 10, 2008, 5:56 PM

Oct. 10, 2008 | 6:50 PM mikobook says:

Reasonably original works roll around every so often like Bitey of Brackenwood and Dad's House and that's always a treat. However, I think you and many others come down a little too hard on those who create video game parodies and sprite animations.

You know, there are many elements of artistry that certain artists specialize in. Most people on NG submit their works for fun (and internet fame). Alvin-Earthworm for example is good at animating and choreographing action sequences, and is debatable good at writing stories, or rather, fan fictions (whether you have any respect for that or not, some people are better at it than others.). He however has not dedicated his time to animating his own artistry, which is no big deal. Submitting stuff to NG isn't a job and all you get for it is chump change for it through the ads.

Then you look at another sprite flash like Bowser's Kingdom. I definitely wouldn't say that the authors strong point is animation, they use pictures and sprites merely as a visual aid. Their strong point is definitely voice acting and making people laugh. So should they only do radio, or should they only offer their voice services to other Flash artists to make 100% original works? No, that's a lame restriction to put on someone.

Think about movies, and all the random people you see in the credits who contributed to the making of a huge film, but don't recieve any recognition for what they do. They contribute vital elements to the film, but it's the acting talents that get the most recognition. I find NG is kind of like a place where you can showcase whatever talents you have; maybe it's restricted to animation and music, but if you have a modest amount of Flash talent, read a couple tutorials and whatnot, you can make an animation to go along with maybe.. your excellent voice talent, or your good writing. Sure, it may not be for everyone, but you don't have to exceed in graphics, animating, music and sound, writing to get recognized for your good work.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but there is no reason to be pompous about it. Like, I hate opera music in general, but I'm not going to go to a music site flooded by composers and users and tell them that "i hate opera, nobody likes opera, Me Fah So was used in another song: unoriginal" etc. This site is FLOODED with geeknerds and 12 year olds, or at least they stand side by side with anybody else on this site. You can't tell that demographic what they should and shouldn't like, they'll like whatever they want.

But that's up to you too, freedom of speech is also important and a part of this site. It's rather annoying when moderators on any site get up on their high horse and ban people for just saying stuff, although it's rather necessary when people consistently spam and harass one person, but I digress.

That is all.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 7:13 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Yeah, everyone I know on TBA is pretty critical of video game parodies. For various reasons too.

As I was saying to JohnnyUtah, I have no real problem with them. Its when you put the two on the same scale that the shit hits the fan (boy I have been using that term alot lately).

Fuck, who needs a rating system at all?

Well I spam really to piss people off, and I occasionally take someones extreme opinion and rip it to shreds, but that's what I enjoy. I guess sometimes I preach my opinion too through my actions, but I'm always open minded.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 7:19 PM JohnnyUtah says:

I don't know what else to tell you dude. whats popular is whats popular. Tom puts experimental stuff on the front page and hardly anybody watches it. I'm not happy about it, but this is the people on the internet. It's the same for all big sites.

Newgrounds gets traffic from every country in the world (besides the ones we're banned from) and people like what's familiar or what they find funny.

And look, you can call me unoriginal and thats cool...but the deal is, the people you look up to and call "original" aren't really original either. I've been to many animation festivals and I've seen it all. You just need to build on what people have done before and try and do it better. If somebody does some amazingly animated movie with a fairly contrived plot, or a mario sprite movie with an original plot, I don't think it's fair to judge either of em harshly. one guys loves animation and the other likes telling stories but maybe can't draw well enough to support his ideas.

im tired.. i guess i cant try and convince people anymore.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 7:31 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Yeah, but it seems like the new direction of Newgrounds is catering to recieve more hits. I noticed the new Foamy flash got frontpage well before it passed judgement. Illwillpress has always been a favorite among the new users and a bane to most long time users.

And I agree, honestly what can be done if the populus doesn't like artsy shit, why put it on the Front page? I just feel these users are the ones who the newer NG is built upon.

Scared of the new. Opposed to all criticism. Narrowminded for only what they like.

I remember a Pixel theory that said "My God its like NG is promoting everything that pisses me off". And that was in 2005. It really has just gotten worse.

As for my favorites, they are shit. I like crappy movies and silly shit. I don't care about origional. I would not quite call myself a purist. Hell, at least 20 of the items on the list I only keep on there for old times sake. I reminder of who I used to be.

I wasn't insulting you, I was only saying that you enjoy the public's opinion more than your work.

Here is a great quote from CV about the deletion system BTW
ChemicalVengence says:
Im not the greatest artist in the world, but I like what I do.....so why should my stuff get deleted just cuz it doenst make Tom money?
ChemicalVengence says:
it doesnt make me any money, but I dont care about that....

Updated: Oct. 10, 2008, 8:25 PM

Oct. 10, 2008 | 7:45 PM DaVeB0T says:

Buhbuhbuh
Let me just add I'm not trying to convert anyone. I really don't give a shit about the direction I think NG is going. I just wanted to share this.

We don't need no water let the mother fucker BURN

Oct. 10, 2008 | 8:38 PM SuperSmurf says:

I think the fact that pico 2 is the biggest load of vaporware since duke nukem forever is proof enough that this place is dying.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 9:13 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Its just proof that the NG staff is either swamped or lazy. And since they don't like to reveal secrets, we'll never know.

Well most likely swamped, but they shouldn't be. Honestly, with so much goddamn money, you should hire a larger staff and stop whining. ghghghhgh Honestly.Put your funds into something that won't piss off users.

Og I feel the high coming on

Oct. 10, 2008 | 8:54 PM ChemicalVengence says:

I gotta say, everything I read here was shocking, yet sadly familiar....I just cant bear to think of all the great work on NG that'll be lost just because it got a low score....most of my work will be. But rly, who cares? The flashes I make I made for myself, to see what I could do. If they make Tom money, why should I care......but if they dont, why should he care? I mean, this is a site for artists right? Or am I mistaken...I definitely feel what you're saying, NG should be about art, not money.....but that's a long shot I guess....

Oct. 10, 2008 | 9:13 PM DaVeB0T responds:

I just don't know if I can believe anymore.

Oct. 10, 2008 | 10:39 PM badfurrykitty says:

WOO PORN!!!!

Oct. 10, 2008 | 10:41 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Missed the point huh?

Oct. 11, 2008 | 2:53 AM Kajenx says:

I think a lot of you guys are a little too wrapped up on getting attention. If you're making flashes for the community, then make what the community wants. If you're making flashes for yourself, then make what you want. Newgrounds has never been "about" anything. Tom started it by making what is essentially spam. The fact that there are any real artists here is a nod to NG's diversity. Trying to break that up is just elitist.

I also don't understand how you guys can go on and on about rtil. Seems like rampant fanboyism, he isn't any better at drawing or animating than Egoraptor, and you guys just rip on him.

Oct. 11, 2008 | 3:30 AM DaVeB0T responds:

The thing is, Newgrounds wasn't meant to be youtube, and yet that is what it is becoming. It was made for the artists to have fun.

Damn I've made this speech like 3 times already. From this point on I refuse to repeat myself. I've even explained how I hold no real grudges against sprites twice. Instead I'll make a new speech.

About fanboying for rtil, his flashes aren't my favorites, and neither is his art, but it is his opinions that set him apart to me. He is really the only long term user who throws his opinions onto NG on the side of origional.

And this is why he has such clout in my opinion. If there were as many openly spoken artists like rtil as there are people who vehemently defend sprite art, NG would be fine. Hell, there might even be more origional artists, because people need role models (another speech for another day).

Honestly, if rtil leaves, the only real outspoken role models on NG would be sprite artists and people who use unorigional jokes. NG will continue to cater to a niche of humor, regulars (most often referred to as elitists here), and statwhores. And who will be left to shake things up? Hell, the entirety of NG will be like the BBS. New users sucking up to older ones, recycled humor, and Self-centered and overly strict mods who promote this behavior. The BBS may have entertained me for a while, but for anyone with a good head, the retardation of users just defeats the fun. Hell, the KK forums were more intellegent than the fucking BBS was ever.

Who will be left to bring variety? Who will be left to challenge the status quo? If you check the traffic charts, you can see less people are coming to NG. The reason it is thriving is because the users are more devoted.

Of course NG will always host plenty of games and audio, but why come to NG when the audio portal layout is so underpopulated and unusable, and you could make more money submitting games to other sites. People are already submitting demos to NG just to promote their own sites, and plenty of those reach the frontpage.

I don't want to see NG disappear into nothingness. I really don't. But this is what I see happening

PS I've seen plenty of great art from rtil, and only the awesome series from egoraptor.

PPS The awesome series was funny the first time around, but each consecutive episode makes me want to bash my fucking skull in.

Updated: Oct. 11, 2008, 3:31 AM

Oct. 11, 2008 | 7:53 AM evil-marshmallow says:

BIRTHDAY WORLD!!!

Oct. 11, 2008 | 4:20 PM DaVeB0T responds:

In this town, no one wins.

Oct. 11, 2008 | 8:44 PM ZiggyZack99 says:

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tra ffic_details/newgrounds.com?site0=new grounds.com&site1=ebaumsworld.com &site2=4chan.org&y=r&z=3&
amp;h=300&w=470&c=1&u[]=newgrounds.com&u[]=ebaumsworld.com &u[]=4chan.org&x=2008-10-12T00%3A47%3 A59.000Z&check=www.alexa.com&signature=ra14zt5LG U8qKadam2CvFxOK%2FTU%3D&range=max &size=Medium

NG Traffic is decreasing, along w/ 4Chan and EBaums.

Oct. 11, 2008 | 9:21 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Very good observation, but I personally think they share most of their userbase. People are getting bored of the internet communities in general.

To add to this, instead of going for better users and origional material, NG has been promoting the people who just come to newgrounds to casually watch things for fun to join and add to their revenue and content.

They have sacrificed intellegence for page views.

Updated: Oct. 11, 2008, 9:22 PM

Oct. 11, 2008 | 9:10 PM MAYORMCHEESE says:

KK really sucked at sticking with flash projects but they absolutely succeeded in pissing everyone off. back in 04/05 there was a topic everyday from people bitching about SS flashes, and in 06/07 it was a topic about the KK everyday. people can say whatever they want about the KK but they achieved at what they did

i dont know what that had to do with anything but i found a bunch of ants on my kitchen counter and im pissed and needed to vent okay!!!

Oct. 11, 2008 | 9:13 PM DaVeB0T responds:

Years from now we'll look back and miss the KK and SS.

The KK was shit as a community of flash, and was a knockoff of the SS in many ways, but they were great at pissing people off.

Oct. 11, 2008 | 11:31 PM ojo66 says:

can you make me an icon?

Oct. 12, 2008 | 12:24 AM DaVeB0T responds:

Probably. I guess I need to make a new one for me.

Oct. 11, 2008 | 11:37 PM GOTHCLAWZ says:

Wow, this shit's black.

Oct. 12, 2008 | 12:36 AM DaVeB0T responds:

Teh

Oct. 12, 2008 | 2:50 AM Yoshio says:

LordZeebmork says:
The only new-age spammer I see who isn't complete shit is Yoshio.
-------------------------------------
----------------------
holy shit this made me cum so fucking hard!

seriously though, this made my day. I always liked Zeeb's work so I found this statement really flattering

and surprising tbh since I really am just a newbie at flash

Oct. 12, 2008 | 3:13 AM MAYORMCHEESE says:

is the genre thing broken? my flash is labeled as "rhythym" ahahhahahahaha

Oct. 12, 2008 | 10:35 PM Stevezor says:

enlightening.

Oct. 15, 2008 | 8:09 PM MindChamber says:

That was a great read. Alot of it was BS though, being that there were alot of assumptions on how NG is run. You can't really do that if you aren't here on the inside. I agree on alot of things, NG isnt as experimental as it should be or used to be.
But, NG has people now it is responsible, People with families, people with nothing else but NG. Im not one of them. If Tom totally sold out I would tell him to go fuck himself just like I would tell any of you worthless faggots. But those days of fighting the system are gone. Either NG compromises or it sinks to the bottom.. Either we try our hardest to slip in every angst, annoying , trite bullshit flash that is there just to shock and repulse people , and die,

or sneak it in and keep it borderline.

Then again if we went the way of the rebel, there would be no way for the site to float, unless it went back to porn ads and malware pop ups. Seriously there is shit ton of content here. It can't be maintained on a free yahoo site. But if the porn ads came back, ya bitch about that too. You guys always bitch. What else is there to do? You guys love the site, but are either talentless or lazy, so you get bored and find something to bitch about. If the site was as free as you wanted to be, would you truly be happy? I sincerely doubt it. Even if every original or experimental flash hit the front page , and it only catered to the small group of you, there would always be some bitching involved. its in your nature, our nature to complain and be passionate about something we love. Believe me, I resent the site almost as much as you guys do, simply because I feel like Im more passionate about it than anyone in the office. That Said, even I don't have the full scope into what it takes to keep this beast afloat.
And its really easy for you guys to say, don't sell out and ban every sprite /parody movie in existence.
But most of you are saying this from the comfort of your homes, with mommy handing you milk and cookies after you post your rant. And to be honest I think its pretty balanced as it is, having it your way would basically turn it into 4Chan or stileproject, . Also NG is still a site that is considered offensive to many, we are banned in a few countries, and are constantly getting negative press for things like the charilie Brown spoof, or the vtech rampage game. Bet you alot of you didnt know Tom spent tons of money defending the snarkie brown flash, or that he lost a major advertiser because he refused to take down the vetch game did you? If NG is losing its steam its because its refusing to go the way of youtube and make this a G site completely.
Also if being extremely talented is what it takes to take back NG then, thats what it takes plain and simple, If you can't knock down some lame flash parody, then go back and work harder on your shit.

There's is shitload of artists that Blaze straight thru the top with their unique and amazing content, if you arent one of them, then thats nobodies fault but your own. Experimental, and original work still has to be entertaining, and claiming parodies are taking over your Frontpage space when in truth your flash is a boring pretentious mess, is a copout. You don't want that parody there, then knock it out.
But you also have to understand true flashes take time, and are mostly done by a single artist. You cant bitch there's no original content when its just because that takes longer to make than your average flash parody. Either make your own shit, or be patient and shut the fuck up and wait for it.

What you DONT see is the fact that Tom still allowing offensive flash and spams, actually hurt the site more than these parodies do, but you guys are too righteous to see that.

Also Rtil is not the messiah of flash, or NG, he's a hypocrite that loves to put down anyone that is against his opinion, and he does this from the luxury of his mommies home, all toasty in his Digipen PJs. Kinda ironic for someone who has actually drawn Mario more times than anyone one of us in the office put together.
but enough about that .

Derailing the site isnt going to get you what you want, wishing for the site to fail isnt either. You need to voice your concern thru the flash, get better at flash and knocking out those annoying parodies once and for all. You dont think the userbase is fickle? They are , they will tire of these parodies and will be looking for something new and interesting. I don't know about you but I plan to be there with new shit when that happens.

Oct. 16, 2008 | 12:46 AM MindChamber says:

typical, you ask for a serious comments to a serious blog and you make some asinine remark about my text being too long, when it isn't even a fraction of the length of the original blog.

why the fuck do I bother

Oct. 16, 2008 | 2:48 AM MindChamber says:

"And I admit, I have no fucking idea how much it costs to maintain NG. RVS does, but thats not important for today. I assume NG could survive without much of this glamour"
no he doesn't, unless he works here, he doesn't , Like I said, too many people's lives are in the balance here , Tom cant just turn around and post offensive garbage without the risk of basically firing everybody and going back to his basement. I really cant see how, you don't see that, you make reasonable points you all seem so smart, but what you are asking basically is for NG to destroy itself. Thats just pretty selfish.

"BeforeI dive into this, let me just ask, why are you so mad?"

Because I hate it here.
I loved what this site used to represent. but its just a mess, People like you with your spam and porn and shock images , have made it no fun to visit, losers like Kristphoer and the rest of the self righteous sprite power brigade have become so selfrighteous its sickening, and then there's the greedy coders who use and abuse the artists for their gain.
Every new kid with flash has to be afraid to upload for fear of total abuse from one of these parties. and In General, the place has become so unfun its ridiculous.

Im mad because I care, Im mad because even though its not my site I take what you guys say to heart , so personally.
I'm just mad that I care so much, I feel so damn stupid, I feel so damn silly.

NG is my life as pathetic as that sounds, but thats no ones fault but my own.
When Dan from armorgames was trying to take over with his fakeass 'Lordbling" site I actually couldn't sleep. But when I see comicon pictures of Tom and Dan 'Sharing drinks' Or Egoraptor and RTil 'Hugging it out' I feel so damn silly.

Its just a job, to these people. its just a game....

Damn, no ones ever asked me that before.. why am I mad.....

I guess there's really only one way NOT to be mad..
and thats not to care.

seriously, thanks for opening my eyes. to this.

Aug. 1, 2009 | 9:24 AM NoneZop says:

lmao what the fuck is going on HERE